Q&A - The Interview: HEATHEN
Blood, Sweat and Tears!
For 40 years now, HEATHEN has been synonymous with high-class, intelligent thrash metal that challenges both the brain and the biceps. With their first two albums, Breaking the Silence and Victims of Deception, they catapulted themselves into the thrash metal hall of fame. Even with their latest studio album, Empire of the Blind, they proved that they are still at the forefront of the genre.
But instead of a new studio album, fans are getting a live release first: Bleed the World: Live is set to hit the market on March 14, 2025. A perfect reason to catch up with guitarist Kragen Lum and find out more about it. And of course, we took the opportunity to ask him some burning questions about HEATHEN’s past, present, and future.
First off, welcome, Kragen! How are you doing?
I’m doing well, how about you? We’re really excited about this live album we just finished. It turned out great—we recorded every single show from our tour with Overkill in 2023, capturing both the band and the audience. Then we went through all the recordings and selected the best versions of each song. It had to be something special—whether it was an outstanding crowd reaction or simply an exceptional performance—and from that, we put together the live album. The result is really strong.
We also got lucky and played a few shows in the U.S. with Exhorder that weren’t part of the Overkill tour. Those were recorded as well, so we were able to include Set Me Free from one of those performances on the album. All in all, it turned out to be a fantastic record, and we’re very happy with it.
Five years after Empire of the Blind, we’re getting a live album instead of a new studio album. Was that a conscious decision, or is something new coming soon?
Yeah, actually, around the time Empire of the Blind was released, we had already planned to release music more frequently. But of course, as soon as the album came out, COVID hit. Everything was at a standstill for two years, but we stood behind that record 100% and were determined to tour with it. So we had to wait, which completely threw off our plans for more frequent releases. The live album, however, had been in the works for quite a while.
We had it planned for a long time, and the next studio album is already in the pipeline—we’re heading into the studio this year. The songs are all written, and most of my guitar tracks are already recorded. Now it’s just a matter of tracking the remaining instruments and making the necessary adjustments in the studio to get the songs as strong as possible. So yes, a new album is coming.
In fact, I already have enough material for another album after that. Over the years, I’ve written, developed, and refined a lot of songs. So there’s definitely a lot to look forward to!
Bleed the World: Live sounds damn good—better than some studio productions, even. You produced the album—so are you the mastermind behind this incredible sound?
Actually, I’m not responsible for the fantastic sound—that was all Zeuss. He did an incredible job mixing it. As for the production, I was the one who organized and prepared everything, with a clear vision of how it should sound. Zeuss then took the material to a whole new level. He’s just amazing, and I absolutely love working with him.
Where were the live recordings for the album taken? And how difficult was it to pick the best takes?
We had certain criteria for filtering out the best performances. There was a clear strategy to get the best possible sound from the recordings.
It took some time, but we found some killer performances. Most of the songs actually come from the U.S. tour. There were a few technical issues—you know how it goes with live shows: sometimes a wireless system fails, sometimes there’s a mic problem or an issue with the recording. In the end, we simply chose the best versions.
One show in Houston, Texas, stood out in particular—I think four songs on the album are from that night. There was something special about that show; the band just sounded even better than usual. The Sun in My Hand video, which is out now as a single, is also pretty cool because it represents multiple continents. The audio was recorded in Boston, Massachusetts, but the video was shot in Munich, Germany. We synced it perfectly, so everything matches. Unfortunately, the Munich audio recording wasn’t usable, but the one from Boston was. In the end, the video turned out great, and we’re happy to be able to showcase different regions.
You finally brought back your cover of The Sweet’s Set Me Free into the live set. Was it fun to dust off this classic again?
Honestly, I’ve been wanting to do this ever since I joined the band. But there was one person who didn’t want to—and they weren’t on this tour. Dave was on board with it, and it was a blast to play. It’s just a killer song to perform live, and for a lot of older fans, it was their first introduction to Heathen back in the day.
It’s great to have it back in the set, and it’s really cool to have it on the live album because the performance turned out so strong. Hearing everything from the first album with better production is just awesome—finally, you can pick up on all the details, and it sounds fantastic.
On the album, we can still hear Jim DeMaria on drums. According to Metal Archives, he was your drummer until 2024. However, your infosheet lists Aggression drummer Ryan Idris. So, what’s the deal? Is Ryan the new man behind the kit?
Looks like Metal Archives needs an update. Jim hasn’t been in the band since 2022. Ryan took over drumming duties in 2023, and his first tour with us was this year. He did a fantastic job on the live album. With all the lineup changes in this band, it’s hard to keep track.
Unfortunately, this is just one of those bands that never had the luck of keeping a steady lineup over the years. It’s like a five-person marriage. Eventually, things freeze up. Everyone is a unique individual with their own needs. As I said, we all have other jobs. I work for Nuclear Blast, Dave is a swimming instructor, Jason works for a backline company—everyone’s got something else going on. Sometimes life just gets in the way when you’re in a band.
We’re just trying to make the best of it, keep moving forward, and keep the train rolling. The Empire of the Blind tour was a huge success, and now we’re excited to follow it up with the live album and then release the new studio record. That’s going to be awesome.
You manage to cover all four albums in a nine-song live set, making the material sound as fresh as if it were just recorded. Not many bands can pull that off. "Goblin’s Blade" sounds just as massive as "The Blight." What do you enjoy playing more live—the older or the newer material?
I don’t have the same personal connection to the older songs since I wasn’t part of the original recordings. But I still love playing them because I was already a fan of the band before I joined. Getting to play these songs live is just really cool. I have a great time doing it.
For me, though, the songs I’ve written myself bring the most personal satisfaction. But it varies. The band’s style has evolved with each album, and every record has its own unique and interesting elements. That’s what’s exciting about the live album—every album is represented by at least one song. That’s awesome and adds a lot of variety to the record.
The press release mentions that you’ve been on tour non-stop since COVID. Was this tour more of a way to break free after the forced break, or were you just eager to tear it up live?
Honestly, we just wanted to promote Empire of the Blind and rebuild the band’s live presence and fanbase. The band had been kind of off the radar for a few years. We were still active, but since around 2013, we hadn’t really done much. It was just one of those situations where we had to re-establish ourselves as a live band. We got offers from all over the world for shows in places the band had never played before.
Since those offers kept coming in, we took them instead of heading into the studio because rebuilding our live fanbase felt more important. We could have gone into the studio last year, but then we got the offer to tour the U.S. with Symphony X. That was a completely different audience we wanted to introduce our music to, so we took the opportunity. It was worth it. We’ve got a few more shows in May, but the main focus this year is on the new album.
The artwork for Bleed the World: Live features your logo piercing through a bleeding Earth. What’s the idea behind this? Is it a commentary on the current state of the world, or just a cool metal cover?
Basically, this tour was a worldwide journey where we put our blood, sweat, and tears into everything. The title is also a nod to the Sun in My Hand artwork, which was originally designed for Empire of the Blind. Our initial plan was to use that artwork as a single cover for Sun in My Hand, but in the end, it wasn’t used. So instead, we decided to repurpose it for the cover of the live version.
Then I asked our artist, Travis Smith—who has done our recent releases as well—to approach the concept from a different angle. Instead of holding the sun in one’s hand, this time it should be the Earth. I told him I wanted a steel Heathen logo piercing through the Earth, making it bleed—and that’s exactly what he created. "Bleed the World" is a lyric from The Blight, and we thought it was a cool way to visually capture a worldwide tour in a single release.
You’ve toured with bands like TESTAMENT, EXODUS, OVERKILL, and SYMPHONY X. What was your absolute highlight, and is there a band you’d love to tour with in the future?
Honestly, we’ve been lucky to put together some really amazing tours in recent years. We’d tour with any band that helps bring our music to a broader audience—not just one specific niche. We don’t want to be one of those bands that only ever plays within a strictly thrash-oriented package. Heathen doesn’t follow all the thrash rules. We have a melodic singer and a lot of melodic elements in our music. That’s why a tour like the one with Symphony X was such a great opportunity for us. There are definitely musical similarities between our bands, but under normal circumstances, you wouldn’t necessarily expect them to tour together. In the end, though, we gained a lot of new fans—people who had never heard us before.
Ultimately, our goal is to get the name Heathen out to as many people as possible. Would we love to tour with bigger bands like Megadeth? Of course, that would be amazing. It would be a huge opportunity to reach more people. But above all, our main goal is to get as many people as possible excited about our music and to put on the best possible show.
Are there differences in the audience depending on whether you play in Europe, the USA, or South America?
Yes, absolutely. Every market or region has its own atmosphere. We see Europe—and especially Germany—as Heathen’s second home because the band has always been welcomed with open arms there, particularly in Germany. However, I feel that many fans in Europe are more old-school and probably prefer the older material. Some would probably love it if we only played the old albums.
The US market might be a bit more open-minded in some ways, but there are also a lot of people who say they’ll come to the show—and then don’t show up. In South America, on the other hand, the fans are just hungry for the music. They’re absolutely fanatical.
You toured live with Exodus until 2019. What do you think about Rob Dukes’ return? I wasn’t particularly excited…
I can understand why people would be happy about Rob Dukes’ return, but I don’t think everyone will be thrilled about it. I like Rob as a person, too. I was on tour with them during the Exhibit B era and got to know him during that time. But like I’ve said before: A band is like a marriage between four or five people, and it’s hard to keep a group like that together for the long haul. Everyone is unique, and sometimes personal differences just happen.
During the Blood In, Blood Out tour, it might have worked better because I played most of the tour, and Gary wasn’t there. Maybe that meant fewer chances for friction—I don’t know. Either way, I wish them nothing but the best and hope they keep having success with their new material. Lee is my buddy, and I really like him. So, I hope everything he does turns out great.
My friend Christian, guitarist of Fatal Embrace from Berlin, is a huge HEATHEN fan, and he’d be especially interested in this question: Do you have a favorite guitar or specific gear you prefer for playing HEATHEN songs?
Yes! As for guitars, on most of the tours we’ve played, I’ve had my Jackson Warrior with me. It’s white and can be seen in the Sun in My Hand video. I love playing that guitar—it’s amazing. I’ve literally taken it all over the world. In general, I’m a big fan of Jackson guitars of that style.
As for other gear, I’m a Mesa-Boogie guy. But it’s not always practical to bring an amp head on every tour. So, I found someone in Australia who made a Kemper profile of my amp sound. I take the Kemper on tour, which allows me to have the same Mesa-Boogie sound wherever we go. Basically, we use the Kemper Profiling Head and run it through a Marshall or another tube amp that’s available at the venue. That way, we get the warmth of the tubes while keeping a pretty accurate reproduction of the Mesa sound. It’s the exact same sound used on Empire of the Blind—and it’ll be on the next album as well.
When people think of the Bay Area, they usually think of veterans like you. Is there any noteworthy new blood? I know you live in Arkansas and were born in Burbank, so you're far from San Francisco, but you play in a Bay Area band... so the question is justified.
Yeah, I mean, there are definitely a number of different bands from the Bay Area. But I don’t think the scene is as strong today as it was in the ‘80s. It’s just hard to have such a large group of bands that are as widely recognized as the ones that came out of the scene back then. One thing I think is missing today—something that was there back then—is that there were no rules.
Every band that came up in the mid to late ‘80s sounded different. Vio-lence sounded different from Forbidden, Forbidden sounded different from Heathen, Heathen sounded different from Exodus, Exodus sounded different from Testament—and so on. Every band had its own unique sound.
Nowadays, there are strict rules and expectations for Thrash Metal—both from the fans and the bands themselves—about what you can and can’t do. And that’s exactly what kills uniqueness.
What we at Heathen still carry forward is exactly that freedom—we don’t set any rules for ourselves. If it sounds good to us, we do it. If we want to play a song in a different tuning, write a ballad, or create an extremely fast song—it doesn’t matter. If it feels right, we go for it. I wish the Thrash scene in general would embrace more of that again. One Bay Area band I can recommend is Hellfire. They’ve got that classic New Wave of British Heavy Metal sound—and it’s great. You should be able to find them on Spotify.
Thanks a lot, Kragen! We’re looking forward to more killer music from HEATHEN—whether live or in the studio!
Thanks for the interview! Please check out our upcoming "The World Live." If you want to support the band and grab a copy, there's a deluxe package available in the Heathen webstore in the US, including vinyl, CD, T-shirts, and a slipmat for your turntable. If shipping is too expensive, please buy it directly from Nuclear Blast in Europe. A direct sale through the label helps the band more than any other purchase method. But if that’s not possible or you just prefer shopping on Amazon—get the album anyway! Listen to it, check it out—and thank you for your support!
